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	<title>Comments on: Apologies Or Apologists? More On Tweed&#8217;s &#8220;Value Added&#8221; Pilot Project</title>
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	<link>http://www.edwize.org/apologies-or-apologists-more-on-tweeds-value-added-pilot-project</link>
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		<title>By: jd2718</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/apologies-or-apologists-more-on-tweeds-value-added-pilot-project/comment-page-1#comment-65117</link>
		<dc:creator>jd2718</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 19:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>But if we agreed that there is wisdom (and fairness!) in equal division, why weren&#039;t we advocating it? The UFT&#039;s recommendation would have been powerful. 

When there&#039;s a chance to speak to fairness, let&#039;s not be silent.

Jonathan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But if we agreed that there is wisdom (and fairness!) in equal division, why weren&#8217;t we advocating it? The UFT&#8217;s recommendation would have been powerful. </p>
<p>When there&#8217;s a chance to speak to fairness, let&#8217;s not be silent.</p>
<p>Jonathan</p>
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		<title>By: Leo Casey</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/apologies-or-apologists-more-on-tweeds-value-added-pilot-project/comment-page-1#comment-64986</link>
		<dc:creator>Leo Casey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:05:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Jonathan:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The question of how the bonus is distributed is a separate question from whether or not the school meets the metrics to receive the bonus.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My argument was about the latter -- that insofar as the measures were for the entire school, the problems with figuring out the effect of individual teachers and with the distribution of students among individual teachers were not pertinent. In other words, the school wide bonuses were well-aligned with the state of development of &quot;value added&quot; and our ability to identify student progress.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I have more confidence than you do in the ability of schools to see the wisdom of equal shares of the bonuses. But this will become an empirical question, and we will be able to see which judgment was more correct.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan:</p>
<p>The question of how the bonus is distributed is a separate question from whether or not the school meets the metrics to receive the bonus.</p>
<p>My argument was about the latter &#8212; that insofar as the measures were for the entire school, the problems with figuring out the effect of individual teachers and with the distribution of students among individual teachers were not pertinent. In other words, the school wide bonuses were well-aligned with the state of development of &#8220;value added&#8221; and our ability to identify student progress.</p>
<p>I have more confidence than you do in the ability of schools to see the wisdom of equal shares of the bonuses. But this will become an empirical question, and we will be able to see which judgment was more correct.</p>
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		<title>By: Sunday links. &#171; PREA Prez</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/apologies-or-apologists-more-on-tweeds-value-added-pilot-project/comment-page-1#comment-64984</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunday links. &#171; PREA Prez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 17:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Leo, If we encouraged members in ’schoolwide bonus’ schools to support equal distribution of the $, there would be no problem. But since we did not, what are they going to look at? Well, many are good union people, and will try to divide equally anyhow. But principals will bring in… that same lousy data, and this: Since the bonuses were school based, the fundamental flaws of the DoE’s “value added” pilot project were not present&#8230; is clearly mistaken. There is probably even greater chance of raw numbers being abused. -Jonathan Comment section of Edwize [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Leo, If we encouraged members in ’schoolwide bonus’ schools to support equal distribution of the $, there would be no problem. But since we did not, what are they going to look at? Well, many are good union people, and will try to divide equally anyhow. But principals will bring in… that same lousy data, and this: Since the bonuses were school based, the fundamental flaws of the DoE’s “value added” pilot project were not present&#8230; is clearly mistaken. There is probably even greater chance of raw numbers being abused. -Jonathan Comment section of Edwize [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jd2718</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/apologies-or-apologists-more-on-tweeds-value-added-pilot-project/comment-page-1#comment-64983</link>
		<dc:creator>jd2718</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 14:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/apologies-or-apologists-more-on-tweeds-value-added-pilot-project#comment-64983</guid>
		<description>Leo,

if we encouraged members in &#039;schoolwide bonus&#039; schools to support equal distribution of the $, there would be no problem. 

But since we did not, what are they going to look at? Well, many are good union people, and will try to divide equally anyhow. 

But principals will bring in... that same lousy data, and this:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Since the bonuses were school based, the fundamental flaws of the DoE’s “value added” pilot project were not present.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

is clearly mistaken. There is probably even greater chance of raw numbers being abused.

Jonathan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leo,</p>
<p>if we encouraged members in &#8216;schoolwide bonus&#8217; schools to support equal distribution of the $, there would be no problem. </p>
<p>But since we did not, what are they going to look at? Well, many are good union people, and will try to divide equally anyhow. </p>
<p>But principals will bring in&#8230; that same lousy data, and this:</p>
<blockquote><p>Since the bonuses were school based, the fundamental flaws of the DoE’s “value added” pilot project were not present.</p></blockquote>
<p>is clearly mistaken. There is probably even greater chance of raw numbers being abused.</p>
<p>Jonathan</p>
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