Better pay in the suburbs

10 Comments:

• 1 redhog
  · Aug 20, 2005 at 6:02 am

  Quite apart from the salary gap between NYC public schools and their suburban counterparts, there is an even greater chasm in terms of the “psychic wage.” Elsewhere, teachers do not have to struggle to gain access to a copying machine or have their material approved by a gatekeeper. They do not have administrators walking uselesly into their classroom to judge their professional merits on pretexts minutae, and compliance with faddism. There is elsewhere a presumption of competence, particularly when the teacher has been teaching gloriously for longer than the supervisor has been on this earth. There is in New York a singular litany of policies that are patronizing, condescending, imperious, and abusive to teachers. These policies are cynically designed to crush the spirit and erode the rights of due process and autonomy of teachers and the grandeur of the profession.

• 2 ag2828
  · Aug 21, 2005 at 9:37 am

  The UFT position of “16 to 24% more” is significantly understated. Many Nassau schools max out over 100K, well over 30% more.

  Why aren’t we using real figures when dealing with Bloomberg and Klein?

• 3 a-realist
  · Aug 21, 2005 at 10:48 am

  Before entering the teaching profession I had the pleasure of working in a low level management postion. I can recall the intense and ongoing training that I systematically received. A great emphasis was always placed on retaining and keeping the employees that we have. To work with each one so that they may grow and became better assets to the organization. It was instructed to the young managers that the cost of replacing employees far out weighed the cost of retaining an employee that we already have. It is unfortunate, in my opinion, that this is not a major goal of the New York City DOE. I have seen too many excellent teachers of all ages leave the system. Usually, these teachers leave after they have “broken in” and have learned their craft at the expense of the students being taught. The City must be more concerned with how to keep teachers, rather than how to get rid of them. Two teachers who left this year indicated to me that their reasons for exiting the system were due to working conditions, and not related to the students. We must work on this in order to keep the good teachers that are regularly leaving our system. I believe that the more experienced New York City teachers we have in the classroom, the more likely we can enhance the educational experience of our students. Please, upper management, take note. We must be concerned with keeping the well experienced teachers we have in our system.

• 4 no_slappz
  · Aug 21, 2005 at 3:38 pm

  Does anyone think math teachers must have foreign language credits on their college transcripts before NY State will grant full certification to them?

  Among many absurd requirements facing new teachers, especially those thinking of switching into teaching from other fields, is this pointless requirement that math (science, et. al.) teachers have foreign language credits to receive full certification to teach math.

  In my view, this requirement knocks most engineers out of the running since most — like me — have Bachelor of Science degrees for which foreign language was not required. By eliminating a considerable source of new teachers in a high-demand subject, the State has created an artificial labor shortage.

  What good is an artificial labor shortage? Well, maybe it’s the lever the union hopes to use in its demand for higher pay for ALL teachers, regardless of the demand for their services. That’s not good for any teacher.

  In most competitive industry settings, employers seek people with needed skills. There’s no effort wasted seeking people who know things that do not apply to the unfilled job. But the NYS Dept. of Ed. thinks otherwise and by so doing, deprives thousands of NY students of math and science teachers.

• 5 redhog
  · Aug 21, 2005 at 6:43 pm

  Some points regarding the above comments: First:Given the far greater availability of pensionable income available to suburban teachers, due to their many more extra clubs/teams/and academic programs held after and before the school day,the deficit in potential income may be even larger.
  Second: We must reason with “upper management” at the same time that we give up on them. Remember that under Chancellor Klein, managers are twenty-somethings with law, banking, or public relations degrees. They are not educators. The mistakes they are making by driving out veteran teachers are not the effects of good-faith strategic errors, butof calculated tactics of belligerence. You are right that very few teachers leave because of the students; it is the terminal rot at the head that makes teachers high-tail and bail out.
  Third: As we discuss the permutations of certification and licensing needs, let’s remember that the heads of most D.O.E. departments, including the Chancellor himself, have been exalted to their posts of authority, having been granted waivers from certificates of competence. All those credits and diplomas are for “the little people.”

• 6 HowardBeale
  · Aug 21, 2005 at 8:08 pm

  Human beings are at their best when they are making each other as miserable as possible. Every time the public has to sweat out a contact deadline, for example, it is because we are good at applying the pressure on each other that enhances that misery. Randy Weingarten and Michael Bloomberg are on the same team. Both are quite well-to-do and both do not work on the front lines in the classroom. You have to also remember that we did not get a raise for the expired contract. It was instead a productivity increase. This is why we have to put up with staying late every Monday. I firmly believe (and I hope that I am wrong) that the present contract talks are over. Now is the postering for the purpose of face saving. The union asks for 20 percent over three years, and the Mayor wants to give us only five percent, the same he gave to DC 37. I believe that the two have worked out a face saving deal at the rank and file’s expense. Look for a tentative agreement as late as the end of October right before the election. Randy will get us a 14 percent productivity increase in exchange for our coming in a week early. I have no idea what she intends to do about the retroactive pay. By settling for 14 percent and forcing teachers to come in a week early, she allows the mayor to save face. I personally will never vote for such a thing, but as we all know, the dishonest ballot association will make sure the contract passes whether I like it or not. I have only five and one half more years to deal with the bull crap of my union and of the department of education. Those of us on the front lines know that children will not learn in an atmosphere where they are allowed to disrespect the teacher. Furthermore, children will not follow rules if parents are absent and derelict in their duty to raise their offspring with basic social skills. This society will never blame the parents for the abysmal state of public education today. They will always find time to blame the teachers. By the time I retire, new teachers may never know what a summer vacation is. That is too bad. Most of us are dedicated, sensitive, hard working people who just want to be allowed to teach. None of the new innovations work as the press and Bloomberg would want us to believe. Teachers don’t need the workshop model, mini lessons, or accountable talk. They simply need the support of the parents and the school system to teach. The idea that I would have to come in a week early for a little more money is repugnant to me, especially if I have to spend that time in moronic staff development meetings. But at least I am at the end of my career. I understand that the teaching profession in this city will become more and more difficult as we are forced into more give backs. Randy, the six figured lawyer, and Mikey the rich mayor are one and the same. In the end, we will get some more money. But considering the unhealthy stress the job creates, I hope that we will live to spend it. I say to the head of our union and to the head of this city: at least be honest with us. Don’t call a productivity increase a raise. As a twenty-five year veteran of this fouled up school system, I object to how you treat your teachers. Once I am retired, I may never get over the memories of abuse I have experienced at the hands of this city and at the hands of my union. At least kiss us while you scew us.

• 7 redhog
  · Aug 21, 2005 at 10:06 pm

  I share both the frustration of Howard Beale, as well as his ignorance of how negotiations will turn out. However, to say, in effect, that Bloomberg and Randi are birds of a feather shows an abysmal and uncouth illiteracy about ornithology as well as leadership. First: on what basis, other than a morbid exercise of free speech, does he claim that the American Ballot Association is “dishonest.”? Is he not alleging complicity in a crime? That’s serious stuff, man, even for a blog. The personal attacks on Randi are base and fighting words.If you divided her salary by the hours she brilliantly agonizes for us, it would be far less than “per session” scale, and a helluva lot less than a person of her credentials would get from ten thousand firms in this City. Referring to Mr. Beale’s assertions of “memories of abuse..at the hands of the Union”, he should acquaint himself with the massive benefits the Union has won. And yes, defying the bitter anti-unionism that has taken hold nationally, the union has won,under our current leadership, despite the hostile climate, major victories in recent times. People who know me, hearing me called a flunky or stooge for the Union, would get whiplash from laughter; my diploma in insurgency is magna cum laude. But what’s fair is fair. Reproaching Randi, vain and indefensible as it is, is a right that she extends to you on this blog, which she has established, out of conviction that this is a democratic organization that welcomes open expression even of clashing views. You say that “Human beings are at their best when they are making each other as miserable as possible.” Speak for yourself, buddy!

• 8 ag2828
  · Aug 21, 2005 at 11:23 pm

  I agree that a productivity increase is not a raise. I think 12% of the last 16% increase was funded by a 12% longer school day. It’s absurd to call that a raise, it’s awful that the tabloids went unchallenged when moaning about it, and it’s a dangerous precedent. If we give in to the mayor’s outlandish demands, we set an impossible precedent for ourselves.

  There’s only so much time you can give back.

  Actually, Burger King employees who work 12% more time get 12% more pay. I hope we do better than that this time. Despite their givebacks, the cops did a lot better than DC37.

  While it’s true that NYPD academy recruits will make less, student teacher pay, even when adjusted for inflation, will remain precisely the same.

• 9 get_me_a_contract
  · Aug 25, 2005 at 11:10 am

  The extremely well paid teachers in Commack, Elwood and other areas of Long Island got great contracts–
  3.75% raises per year over a 4 year period with no give backs whatsoever. Here is a link to a perb ruling:
  http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:SvXTHA3Ao5gJ:www.perb.state.ny.us/pdf/m2003-002.pdf+Commack+teacher+salaries&hl=en\

  At the end of their contract, for example, the top salary for a Commack teacher will be close be about $129,000. My cousin is a teacher in that district and showed me the contract and salary schedules. I would be happy to post them as proof that we teachers in NYC are grossly underpaid.

  Moreover, the working conditions are appalling–many buildings are in awful shape and so many of us have to spend so much money just to get our classes in order. I spent almost $1,000 of my own money last year. I can’t keep doing this as my living costs are going up while my salary is not.

  This is what I want to say to Randi Weingarten–get tough on the mayor. Be like Cindy Sheehan. Have a vigil outside his house and force him to negotiate with you.

  This is what I say to Mayor Bloomberg–take that $400 rebate you give to NYC property owners and put it into a pool to raise teacher salaries. Raise property taxes if you need. Hey, property taxes are sky high on Long Island!!! I am not saying to raise them that high, but you can find a way to fund raises without bankrupting the city.

  And–don’t even think about eliminating tenure/seniority, Mayor Bloomberg. You will end up destroying the system….that’s what the NY Post wants–to destroy public education. Is that what you want?

  If we don’t get a satisfactory contract this year, many teachers (including myself–and I am considered to be an outstanding teacher) will leave the system.

• 10 a-realist
  · Aug 29, 2005 at 8:52 pm

  I think the reason there is better pay in the suburbs is that the price of housing is considerably higher. For example, one can still purchase a starter home within the five boroughs for $$ 1/2 million, whereas the starter homes in Westchester, are $$ 1 million. Come to think of it, perhaps both city and suburban teachers are underpaid based on the cost of living in this area. Yes, I think so. I just received the highest Con-Edison bill for one month’s electric service than any other time in my life. In fact, it was higher than any Con-Edison bill my grand- parents and parents received. Yes, it is time for a cost of living adjustment to our salaries.