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	<title>Comments on: Billyball Strikes Out As Educational Model [Updated]</title>
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		<title>By: kitchen table math, the sequel: Miss A and Moneyball</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/billy-ball-strikes-out-as-educational-model/comment-page-1#comment-65284</link>
		<dc:creator>kitchen table math, the sequel: Miss A and Moneyball</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/billy-ball-strikes-out-as-educational-model#comment-65284</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] for him.&quot;Indeed.I mention Moneyball because of a rondelay amongst Kevin Carey, Matthew Tabor, and Leo Casey over the question of whether teachers can or cannot be an undervalued &quot;commodity&quot; in the sense that [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] for him.&#8221;Indeed.I mention Moneyball because of a rondelay amongst Kevin Carey, Matthew Tabor, and Leo Casey over the question of whether teachers can or cannot be an undervalued &#8220;commodity&#8221; in the sense that [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: We Are Not Commodities &#124; Edwize</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/billy-ball-strikes-out-as-educational-model/comment-page-1#comment-65269</link>
		<dc:creator>We Are Not Commodities &#124; Edwize</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 05:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/billy-ball-strikes-out-as-educational-model#comment-65269</guid>
		<description>[...] a moment to recall this context, before you read Andrew Tabor&#8217;s commentary on the exchange between Kevin Carey and myself over the applicability of the statistical measures of the Oakland [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a moment to recall this context, before you read Andrew Tabor&#8217;s commentary on the exchange between Kevin Carey and myself over the applicability of the statistical measures of the Oakland [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ars_artis</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/billy-ball-strikes-out-as-educational-model/comment-page-1#comment-65251</link>
		<dc:creator>Ars_artis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 22:47:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/billy-ball-strikes-out-as-educational-model#comment-65251</guid>
		<description>Please get your facts straight. Kazmir, Fielder, and Upton were all drafted before the A&#039;s made their first selection, Nick Swisher. Oakland didn&#039;t have the option of selecting any of them. As for the rest, Swisher got to the majors quicker and has established more success there than either Loney or Francoeur. (Hamels may end up being better than all of them - only time will tell.) By the time the A&#039;s made their second pick, all these players were gone. Please also note that the A&#039;s have selected high school players at the start of the draft - they drafted a high school pitcher, Jeremy Bonderman, in the 2001 first round.

A little investigation into Beane and the A&#039;s would reveal the simple fact that rather than being driven by an adherence to statistics as a means to success, the A&#039;s sought players that were underrated by other ballclubs by ANY standard. This is why the A&#039;s of the past few years transitioned into a team that was primarily driven by pitching and defense, away from the OBP-oriented teams of prior years. Beane has kept the A&#039;s in contention for the last decade through flexible market exploitation, not adherence to narrow ideology. Color me skeptical that public schools will ever be so creative with limited funding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please get your facts straight. Kazmir, Fielder, and Upton were all drafted before the A&#8217;s made their first selection, Nick Swisher. Oakland didn&#8217;t have the option of selecting any of them. As for the rest, Swisher got to the majors quicker and has established more success there than either Loney or Francoeur. (Hamels may end up being better than all of them &#8211; only time will tell.) By the time the A&#8217;s made their second pick, all these players were gone. Please also note that the A&#8217;s have selected high school players at the start of the draft &#8211; they drafted a high school pitcher, Jeremy Bonderman, in the 2001 first round.</p>
<p>A little investigation into Beane and the A&#8217;s would reveal the simple fact that rather than being driven by an adherence to statistics as a means to success, the A&#8217;s sought players that were underrated by other ballclubs by ANY standard. This is why the A&#8217;s of the past few years transitioned into a team that was primarily driven by pitching and defense, away from the OBP-oriented teams of prior years. Beane has kept the A&#8217;s in contention for the last decade through flexible market exploitation, not adherence to narrow ideology. Color me skeptical that public schools will ever be so creative with limited funding.</p>
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		<title>By: When Baseball and Education Meet: Moneyball, the UFT and a Missed Opportunity at www.matthewktabor.com : Education and School Issues, News and Analysis</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/billy-ball-strikes-out-as-educational-model/comment-page-1#comment-65248</link>
		<dc:creator>When Baseball and Education Meet: Moneyball, the UFT and a Missed Opportunity at www.matthewktabor.com : Education and School Issues, News and Analysis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/billy-ball-strikes-out-as-educational-model#comment-65248</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;d rather focus on Leo Casey&#8217;s response on Edwize, the UFT&#8217;s official blog. In &#8220;BillyBall Strikes Out as Educational Model,&#8221; Casey [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;d rather focus on Leo Casey&#8217;s response on Edwize, the UFT&#8217;s official blog. In &#8220;BillyBall Strikes Out as Educational Model,&#8221; Casey [...]</p>
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		<title>By: paulrubin</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/billy-ball-strikes-out-as-educational-model/comment-page-1#comment-65238</link>
		<dc:creator>paulrubin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/billy-ball-strikes-out-as-educational-model#comment-65238</guid>
		<description>As an avid fantasy baseball enthusiast, it&#039;s an interesting concept. In the world of fantasy baseball, we do look for underlying skill sets as predictive indicators of future success. It&#039;s easy to know that ARod or Wright are likely to have successful 2008&#039;s based on past performance but fantasy baseball winners need to find the next ARod/Wright before they produce the fearsome stats in order to win.

It&#039;s probably quite true that we need to make more of an effort at all levels to find the next great teachers and find some ways to reward to best among us and find ways to either fix or remove the worst (with probably a good 90% representing the middle).

With that said, this value added nonsense isn&#039;t the magic bullet that will tell you who will be great in the classroom, most certainly not with the types of tests we now use, the available data, the timing of the tests, the large number of variables impacting the kids (home, administration, multiple teachers, multiple subjects, off days, cheating, private test prep, alternative intervention services, etc.) Baseball, by comparison, is a relatively simplistic exercise with a historic use of complex statistics and even there, it&#039;s as much as art as a science.

Too bad we don&#039;t put as much effort into what does work and too bad we don&#039;t use the obvious to determine who goes into the classroom: well spoken adults with both training and a willingness to train for a lifetime. Adults who can both write and orally communicate. Adults with a demonstrable love of their subject matter and of children. And a career path for said adults that rewards creativity and success as judged by those who are already in the profession and can make such determinations as well as by parents and students who serve as their customers.

I wonder how Chancellor Klein would feel if we used gym teachers and fire fighters and baseball players and small business owners to determine certification and evaluation standards for those pursuing law degrees. Sure makes sense to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an avid fantasy baseball enthusiast, it&#8217;s an interesting concept. In the world of fantasy baseball, we do look for underlying skill sets as predictive indicators of future success. It&#8217;s easy to know that ARod or Wright are likely to have successful 2008&#8242;s based on past performance but fantasy baseball winners need to find the next ARod/Wright before they produce the fearsome stats in order to win.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s probably quite true that we need to make more of an effort at all levels to find the next great teachers and find some ways to reward to best among us and find ways to either fix or remove the worst (with probably a good 90% representing the middle).</p>
<p>With that said, this value added nonsense isn&#8217;t the magic bullet that will tell you who will be great in the classroom, most certainly not with the types of tests we now use, the available data, the timing of the tests, the large number of variables impacting the kids (home, administration, multiple teachers, multiple subjects, off days, cheating, private test prep, alternative intervention services, etc.) Baseball, by comparison, is a relatively simplistic exercise with a historic use of complex statistics and even there, it&#8217;s as much as art as a science.</p>
<p>Too bad we don&#8217;t put as much effort into what does work and too bad we don&#8217;t use the obvious to determine who goes into the classroom: well spoken adults with both training and a willingness to train for a lifetime. Adults who can both write and orally communicate. Adults with a demonstrable love of their subject matter and of children. And a career path for said adults that rewards creativity and success as judged by those who are already in the profession and can make such determinations as well as by parents and students who serve as their customers.</p>
<p>I wonder how Chancellor Klein would feel if we used gym teachers and fire fighters and baseball players and small business owners to determine certification and evaluation standards for those pursuing law degrees. Sure makes sense to me.</p>
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