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	<title>Comments on: Coalition Agreement With New York City, DOE</title>
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	<link>http://www.edwize.org/coalition-agreement-with-new-york-city-doe</link>
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		<title>By: This week in blogging, here &#171; JD2718</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/coalition-agreement-with-new-york-city-doe/comment-page-1#comment-61042</link>
		<dc:creator>This week in blogging, here &#171; JD2718</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2007 00:01:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/coalition-agreement-with-new-york-city-doe#comment-61042</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] two serious discussions about the modifications to the Bloomberg Department of Ed reorganization, first about the agreement and then about teachers [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] two serious discussions about the modifications to the Bloomberg Department of Ed reorganization, first about the agreement and then about teachers [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Kombiz Lavasany</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/coalition-agreement-with-new-york-city-doe/comment-page-1#comment-58835</link>
		<dc:creator>Kombiz Lavasany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 21:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/coalition-agreement-with-new-york-city-doe#comment-58835</guid>
		<description>I posted a partial response on another thread. It&#039;s below.

--

Funding is held steady for two years. The re-organization which Klein was originally implementing (The UFT has no official say over funding,) would have funded positions at starting teacher salary. That was changed. Those were among the changes made by the coalition agreement. For the next two school years there’s schools will be held harmless. With CFE funding budgets could increase (dramatically) for schools. The UFT is grieving the inclusion of salary in transfer application.

We’re also monitoring the transfer situation very closely this
spring to see if there are any instances of abuse. If you are aware of any notify your DR immediately.

The UFT will vigorously pursue correcting any mishandling of the funding situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted a partial response on another thread. It&#8217;s below.</p>
<p>&#8211;</p>
<p>Funding is held steady for two years. The re-organization which Klein was originally implementing (The UFT has no official say over funding,) would have funded positions at starting teacher salary. That was changed. Those were among the changes made by the coalition agreement. For the next two school years there’s schools will be held harmless. With CFE funding budgets could increase (dramatically) for schools. The UFT is grieving the inclusion of salary in transfer application.</p>
<p>We’re also monitoring the transfer situation very closely this<br />
spring to see if there are any instances of abuse. If you are aware of any notify your DR immediately.</p>
<p>The UFT will vigorously pursue correcting any mishandling of the funding situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Schoolgal</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/coalition-agreement-with-new-york-city-doe/comment-page-1#comment-58577</link>
		<dc:creator>Schoolgal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 10:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/coalition-agreement-with-new-york-city-doe#comment-58577</guid>
		<description>Now that this thread in on the 2nd page, you might just get an answer that others will never see.  That&#039;s how much Edwize has changed sine 05.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that this thread in on the 2nd page, you might just get an answer that others will never see.  That&#8217;s how much Edwize has changed sine 05.</p>
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		<title>By: MichaelB</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/coalition-agreement-with-new-york-city-doe/comment-page-1#comment-58370</link>
		<dc:creator>MichaelB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 01:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/coalition-agreement-with-new-york-city-doe#comment-58370</guid>
		<description>So, is thread going to end without someone (Leo) explaining the difference between the proposed and actual school funding forumulas and answering the question (yes or no) as to whether or not principals save money by hiring newer teachers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, is thread going to end without someone (Leo) explaining the difference between the proposed and actual school funding forumulas and answering the question (yes or no) as to whether or not principals save money by hiring newer teachers?</p>
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		<title>By: paulrubin</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/coalition-agreement-with-new-york-city-doe/comment-page-1#comment-58080</link>
		<dc:creator>paulrubin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 02:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/coalition-agreement-with-new-york-city-doe#comment-58080</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t use a tongue in cheek response to a comment as an argument. This has nothing to do with salary differentials by subject. That argument was simply about how it&#039;s apparently ok to punish senior teachers (and I see senior teachers in this scenario as those above 10 years of service) by agreeing with Bloomberg&#039;s fundamental idea which is to use actual salaries when staffing buildings. Any argument made that justifies it is coming off as pathetic. The bottom line is that we&#039;re impeding the transfer process for those who&#039;ve earned the right to transfer. I personally have no desire to transfer but it was nice to know that I could have before.

Now sure this may be the way it&#039;s done in private industry but that doesn&#039;t make it right and last I heard the NYC public school system was still a public entity, not a private one. If I wanted to work at garbage wages for Walmart I would have. It&#039;s a short sighted policy that will only serve to chase teachers out of the system at all levels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t use a tongue in cheek response to a comment as an argument. This has nothing to do with salary differentials by subject. That argument was simply about how it&#8217;s apparently ok to punish senior teachers (and I see senior teachers in this scenario as those above 10 years of service) by agreeing with Bloomberg&#8217;s fundamental idea which is to use actual salaries when staffing buildings. Any argument made that justifies it is coming off as pathetic. The bottom line is that we&#8217;re impeding the transfer process for those who&#8217;ve earned the right to transfer. I personally have no desire to transfer but it was nice to know that I could have before.</p>
<p>Now sure this may be the way it&#8217;s done in private industry but that doesn&#8217;t make it right and last I heard the NYC public school system was still a public entity, not a private one. If I wanted to work at garbage wages for Walmart I would have. It&#8217;s a short sighted policy that will only serve to chase teachers out of the system at all levels.</p>
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		<title>By: Schoolgal</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/coalition-agreement-with-new-york-city-doe/comment-page-1#comment-58031</link>
		<dc:creator>Schoolgal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 21:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/coalition-agreement-with-new-york-city-doe#comment-58031</guid>
		<description>Let us not forget what happened in September:

Klein sent an email to all principals telling them not to hire ATRs or excessed teachers.  I do not recall any outrage by our union in the media.

I warned back in 05 how giving up excessing rights would lead to bigger problems.  If I could figure that out, the union had to know that too.  Instead we were told what a great opportunity the open market was.  Now the application includes current salary.  That&#039;s a caveat right there.
Yet we needed permission to continue a grievance. 

The open market was a very creative way to end seniority rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let us not forget what happened in September:</p>
<p>Klein sent an email to all principals telling them not to hire ATRs or excessed teachers.  I do not recall any outrage by our union in the media.</p>
<p>I warned back in 05 how giving up excessing rights would lead to bigger problems.  If I could figure that out, the union had to know that too.  Instead we were told what a great opportunity the open market was.  Now the application includes current salary.  That&#8217;s a caveat right there.<br />
Yet we needed permission to continue a grievance. </p>
<p>The open market was a very creative way to end seniority rights.</p>
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		<title>By: MichaelB</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/coalition-agreement-with-new-york-city-doe/comment-page-1#comment-58030</link>
		<dc:creator>MichaelB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/coalition-agreement-with-new-york-city-doe#comment-58030</guid>
		<description>SOC ST TEACHER, I wish you would  be more specific about whose comments you are criticizing, but I&#039;ll assume you&#039;re referring to my post. I&#039;ve never booed Randi at a delagate assembly, but I&#039;m beginning to understand the frustration of those who do.

More to the point, I never suggested that Klein&#039;s original proposal was better - I said as far as I could understand, one aspect of the compromise was worse than the original.   I even went as far as to say that the deal might be the best we could get under the circumstances.

Is my understanding - that principals will &quot;pocket&quot; more money by hiring new teachers under the compromise than under the original plan - incorrect?   If so, please explain in detail. I&#039;d like to know exactly what was originally proposed and what was finally agreed to.

Also, I can&#039;t understand why you use a phrase like &quot;eliminates the incentives&quot;.  Are you saying that principals will NOT save money by hiring less experienced teachers? 

Why is Leo absent from this discussion?  What are our strategies going forward?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SOC ST TEACHER, I wish you would  be more specific about whose comments you are criticizing, but I&#8217;ll assume you&#8217;re referring to my post. I&#8217;ve never booed Randi at a delagate assembly, but I&#8217;m beginning to understand the frustration of those who do.</p>
<p>More to the point, I never suggested that Klein&#8217;s original proposal was better &#8211; I said as far as I could understand, one aspect of the compromise was worse than the original.   I even went as far as to say that the deal might be the best we could get under the circumstances.</p>
<p>Is my understanding &#8211; that principals will &#8220;pocket&#8221; more money by hiring new teachers under the compromise than under the original plan &#8211; incorrect?   If so, please explain in detail. I&#8217;d like to know exactly what was originally proposed and what was finally agreed to.</p>
<p>Also, I can&#8217;t understand why you use a phrase like &#8220;eliminates the incentives&#8221;.  Are you saying that principals will NOT save money by hiring less experienced teachers? </p>
<p>Why is Leo absent from this discussion?  What are our strategies going forward?</p>
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		<title>By: jd2718</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/coalition-agreement-with-new-york-city-doe/comment-page-1#comment-57795</link>
		<dc:creator>jd2718</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 02:16:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/coalition-agreement-with-new-york-city-doe#comment-57795</guid>
		<description>We didn&#039;t protect senior teachers&#039; right to transfer. Those at phasing out schools are really stuck.  No principal is going to pick up an $85K salary.

Instead of blaming people for pointing this out, why don&#039;t you talk about how we are going to help those teachers?

We could start by being honest about what the DoE is trying to do to them. We will continue our grievance, and we should be public about it. We could consider an age-discrimination law suit. And we should think of other strategies if these don&#039;t work. 

We have an obligation to help our most vulnerable members. More effort, more public effort, would be welcome.

Jonathan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We didn&#8217;t protect senior teachers&#8217; right to transfer. Those at phasing out schools are really stuck.  No principal is going to pick up an $85K salary.</p>
<p>Instead of blaming people for pointing this out, why don&#8217;t you talk about how we are going to help those teachers?</p>
<p>We could start by being honest about what the DoE is trying to do to them. We will continue our grievance, and we should be public about it. We could consider an age-discrimination law suit. And we should think of other strategies if these don&#8217;t work. </p>
<p>We have an obligation to help our most vulnerable members. More effort, more public effort, would be welcome.</p>
<p>Jonathan</p>
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		<title>By: SOC ST TEACHER</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/coalition-agreement-with-new-york-city-doe/comment-page-1#comment-57757</link>
		<dc:creator>SOC ST TEACHER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2007 23:39:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/coalition-agreement-with-new-york-city-doe#comment-57757</guid>
		<description>The truth would be that the Delegate Assembly expressed overwhelming support for the agreement, and that the heckling was entirely the work of the small group of permenant oppositionists who would oppose Mothers Day if it were supported by Randi.

Some commenters here need to simply think through the premises of their own questions. There was absolutely no need for the UFT and other Coalition partners to enter into this agreement if it did not substantially improve the situation for schools, teachers and kids. Anyone without a political agenda -- or without a desire for the UFT to negotiate special salary differentials for Math and Science teachers at the expense of other teachers -- understands that. This agreement protects successful schools through the remaining years of Bloomberg-Klein, and eliminates the incentives to replace senior teachers with novices. The convoluted arguments presented here assume that principals have no interest in finding and keeping quality teachers for their schools, and so will use salary neutral systems to force out senior teachers.

The absurdity of it all appears in the claim that it was better to have the original Klein proposal, where a school did not keep the salary of retiring and leaving teachers, than the changes which make it possible for the school to hire a teacher of similar salary and experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The truth would be that the Delegate Assembly expressed overwhelming support for the agreement, and that the heckling was entirely the work of the small group of permenant oppositionists who would oppose Mothers Day if it were supported by Randi.</p>
<p>Some commenters here need to simply think through the premises of their own questions. There was absolutely no need for the UFT and other Coalition partners to enter into this agreement if it did not substantially improve the situation for schools, teachers and kids. Anyone without a political agenda &#8212; or without a desire for the UFT to negotiate special salary differentials for Math and Science teachers at the expense of other teachers &#8212; understands that. This agreement protects successful schools through the remaining years of Bloomberg-Klein, and eliminates the incentives to replace senior teachers with novices. The convoluted arguments presented here assume that principals have no interest in finding and keeping quality teachers for their schools, and so will use salary neutral systems to force out senior teachers.</p>
<p>The absurdity of it all appears in the claim that it was better to have the original Klein proposal, where a school did not keep the salary of retiring and leaving teachers, than the changes which make it possible for the school to hire a teacher of similar salary and experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Sherman Dorn</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/coalition-agreement-with-new-york-city-doe/comment-page-1#comment-57754</link>
		<dc:creator>Sherman Dorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Apr 2007 23:08:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/coalition-agreement-with-new-york-city-doe#comment-57754</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Not quite Robespierre...&lt;/strong&gt;

NYC Mayor Bloomberg and Chancellor Klein&#039;s foolishness has now reached the point where Diane Ravitch described&#160;it&#160;simply as a sorry situation in NYC. The description is accurate with four years&#160;of revolving reorganizations and mandates....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Not quite Robespierre&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>NYC Mayor Bloomberg and Chancellor Klein&#8217;s foolishness has now reached the point where Diane Ravitch described&nbsp;it&nbsp;simply as a sorry situation in NYC. The description is accurate with four years&nbsp;of revolving reorganizations and mandates&#8230;.</p>
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