Comments on: Pay for Performance Vote in Denver

By: Edwize » Eva flames out on teacher quality

Edwize » Eva flames out on teacher quality — Thu, 08 Dec 2005 21:53:53 +0000

[...] Maybe Eva and other proponents would say the teachers’ unions blocked these bills. But in fact the only place that is trying performance pay on any scale at all is Denver, Colorado, and there it was the teachers union that wrote and championed the measure, taking a full five years to pilot and develop it. Performance pay may be a good idea in the abstract but in the implementation it’s a real bear. Klein thinks announcing things makes them so, but he’s mistaken. [...]

By: Peter Goodman

Peter Goodman — Wed, 02 Nov 2005 20:43:03 +0000

There was an “active debate” within the Denver Teachers Association around the Procomp plan. The Denver school district has a large number of new immigrants, mostly Hispanic, and the city is surrounded by upscale suburbs. Sound familiar? After lengthy, and at times, loud debate the members approved the plan, and developed a coalition to place the issue on the ballot and conducted a vigorous campaign. Check out the Plan yourself… it’s quite interesting. A number of issues in the plan already exist in NYC … the DOE currently give teachers who agree to teach in “hard to staff” schools tuition remission, they pay tuition for graduate studies in a number of “shortage areas,” and, teachers in the Chancellor’s District received additional compensation for working a longer school day and year. I don’t support or oppose the Denver ProComp Plan … however … we should closely monitor it …

By: Maisie

Maisie — Wed, 02 Nov 2005 15:10:46 +0000

The measure passed yesterday (Tuesday), part of a package of other taxes. Thanks to Peter Goodman for keeping his eagle eye on this issue and forwarding the news update. A link to the story in the Rocky Mountain News is appended to the end of the original post.

By: NYC Educator

NYC Educator — Wed, 02 Nov 2005 02:31:43 +0000

It’s interesting to hear Unity writers explain how they plan to use merit pay in the future–their merit pay is not merit pay, just as the new sixth class is not actually a sixth class, and how they’ve reinstituted lunchroom duty but somehow no one will be actually doing lunchroom duty…

In a few years, the same people will be explaining why the new pay cut isn’t a pay cut.

By: redhog

redhog — Wed, 02 Nov 2005 01:09:46 +0000

There is absolutely no correspondence at present between the merit of teachers’performance and the recognition and advancement granted them. If anything, there is an inverse relationship ( or is it “reverse”?)
Not 5% of the administrators in the school system are worth a can of Dash dogfood, in my estimation and dispassionate recollection.

By: R. Skibins

R. Skibins — Tue, 01 Nov 2005 19:17:30 +0000

Redhog,

I agree with you 100%. All of the kiss-a$$ toadies will be the ones selected by the administrators for this form of merit pay. What would stop a principal from stacking your class with the lowest functioning students in the western hemisphere, while stacking his/her toady with the cream of the crop? Nobody can deny that this happens already.

By: Maisie

Maisie — Tue, 01 Nov 2005 16:06:51 +0000

Northbrooklyn and whoever:
Go to the ProComp site (use the link in the post) and go to the salary calculator on the left toolbar. It’s pretty easy to use. I just made up stuff, but I got a pretty specific idea of what my salary would be going forward, depending on what kinds of PD, evaluations, and choices I’d make through my teaching career.

It’s important to note that this is not merit pay in the way we think of that (toxic) system. The principal does not decide who gets extra pay. It’s done by a combination of skills and knowledge and incentives. However, we’ll see. Denver will be a good test.

By: Persam1197

Persam1197 — Tue, 01 Nov 2005 09:52:37 +0000

Do doctors get merit pay or do they just get paid as professionals?

This scheme also lends itself to another problem: the value of a teacher versus another. Is a math teacher more valuable than a music teacher? Is a science teacher worth more than a health teacher?If you’re not teaching a course with a standardized exam, how are you supposedly measured?

What happens if a teacher works a student to a breakthrough year in an English or Math class that does not terminate in a Regents exam and I get lucky enough to get that kid next year when the Regents is given? How do you “tip” the previous teacher?

The powers that be continue to look for quick fixes instead of investing real resources to our schools and kids. I personally do not need a carrot on a stick to make me work harder. I give 200% every day and would appreciate respectable compensation for my dedication to feed my family. Is that too much to ask for?

By: shouldhavegonetomeds

shouldhavegonetomeds — Tue, 01 Nov 2005 05:20:34 +0000

I can only speak for myself. I am a 1972 graduate of a high quality Catholic men’s college. I had 1200 SAT’s. I liked books, words, reading, children and social justice. I quickly procured a Master’s in the teaching of Reading from a respectable private university, as I realized I had quite a bit of academics and not enough pedagogy from my undergraduate alma mater. Teaching seemed like a good fit for me at the time,

Frankly one of the things I liked about it was that the raises would come if not copiously but decently in lock step manner without a lot of politics, back stabbing, etc. Frankly, if one is going to go through all that why not go to medicine or law where the money really is, otherwise you really just end up with much ado about do do in education.

By the way, if lock step is so bad how is that school districts like Scarsdale are perfectly OK with that approach?

By: NYC Educator

NYC Educator — Tue, 01 Nov 2005 03:07:17 +0000

Northbrooklyn,

It’s easy. Just imagine you’re getting a tip instead of a salary. For example, if you worked in a diner, you’d get two dollars an hour, and then you could keep all the tips you made.

Or you could just go out to the Island and make over 100K. That’s where a good portion of our young teacher corps will end up.

Tom Suozzi should really send Mayor Bloomberg a thank you card.