Comments on: The Big Lie And The Simple Truth http://www.edwize.org/the-big-lie-and-the-simple-truth Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:46:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Rating teachers on use of data. Huh? « JD2718 http://www.edwize.org/the-big-lie-and-the-simple-truth/comment-page-1#comment-65629 Rating teachers on use of data. Huh? « JD2718 Sun, 04 May 2008 15:15:09 +0000 http://edwize.org/the-big-lie-and-the-simple-truth#comment-65629 [...] one of the discussions on Edwize, the UFT’s blog, I asked my questions and made my points. (reproduced at the bottom of this [...] [...] one of the discussions on Edwize, the UFT’s blog, I asked my questions and made my points. (reproduced at the bottom of this [...]

]]> By: Tenure: What It Is And What It Is Not | Edwize http://www.edwize.org/the-big-lie-and-the-simple-truth/comment-page-1#comment-65566 Tenure: What It Is And What It Is Not | Edwize Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:49:44 +0000 http://edwize.org/the-big-lie-and-the-simple-truth#comment-65566 [...] The recent controversy surrounding the recent legislation on tenure criteria was made possible, in significant measure, by a lack of awareness outside of education on what tenure actually is. [...] [...] The recent controversy surrounding the recent legislation on tenure criteria was made possible, in significant measure, by a lack of awareness outside of education on what tenure actually is. [...]

]]> By: nycityteacher http://www.edwize.org/the-big-lie-and-the-simple-truth/comment-page-1#comment-65518 nycityteacher Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:26:33 +0000 http://edwize.org/the-big-lie-and-the-simple-truth#comment-65518 While I realize that test scores are a narrow measure, we are harming our profession by steadfastly refusing to be accountable for quantifiable outcomes. While I realize that test scores are a narrow measure, we are harming our profession by steadfastly refusing to be accountable for quantifiable outcomes.

]]> By: Jackie Bennett http://www.edwize.org/the-big-lie-and-the-simple-truth/comment-page-1#comment-65517 Jackie Bennett Sun, 13 Apr 2008 22:18:57 +0000 http://edwize.org/the-big-lie-and-the-simple-truth#comment-65517 Here's another aspect of the Big Lie. Bloomberg knows darned well that evaluating teachers by test score doesn't work. Hehas said it himself on the steps of city hall: … “I am a capitalist and I am in favor of incentives for individual people, yes. But it depends on the situation and the organization and what the function is. In some cases it’s very easy to measure whether you do a better job than the person sitting to your left or right. In the schools it is a much more collaborative effort.” That's October 17, 2007, just three months before Bloomberg gave the state of the city address and we were all off to the races. Bloomberg knows value-added (test score evaluation) doesn't work, and I can't imagine that any whispering in his ear on the part of Joel Klein could have changed that. It's politics, not education, Bloomberg's thinking about -- his future, not the future of the schools. Here’s another aspect of the Big Lie. Bloomberg knows darned well that evaluating teachers by test score doesn’t work. Hehas said it himself on the steps of city hall:

… “I am a capitalist and I am in favor of incentives for individual people, yes. But it depends on the situation and the organization and what the function is. In some cases it’s very easy to measure whether you do a better job than the person sitting to your left or right. In the schools it is a much more collaborative effort.”

That’s October 17, 2007, just three months before Bloomberg gave the state of the city address and we were all off to the races. Bloomberg knows value-added (test score evaluation) doesn’t work, and I can’t imagine that any whispering in his ear on the part of Joel Klein could have changed that. It’s politics, not education, Bloomberg’s thinking about — his future, not the future of the schools.

]]> By: jd2718 http://www.edwize.org/the-big-lie-and-the-simple-truth/comment-page-1#comment-65511 jd2718 Sun, 13 Apr 2008 13:53:49 +0000 http://edwize.org/the-big-lie-and-the-simple-truth#comment-65511 1. Power (the more arbitrary, the better). Bloomberg managed his managers by keeping them in fear. He likes this. 2. Foot in the door. It is true that the DoE already has lots of control over probationary teachers. But they would come back and try to rate all teachers with the scores. There's probably more. I hope someone else chimes in. Jonathan 1. Power (the more arbitrary, the better). Bloomberg managed his managers by keeping them in fear. He likes this.
2. Foot in the door. It is true that the DoE already has lots of control over probationary teachers. But they would come back and try to rate all teachers with the scores.

There’s probably more. I hope someone else chimes in.

Jonathan

]]> By: MichaelB http://www.edwize.org/the-big-lie-and-the-simple-truth/comment-page-1#comment-65506 MichaelB Sun, 13 Apr 2008 01:09:48 +0000 http://edwize.org/the-big-lie-and-the-simple-truth#comment-65506 Can someone tell me what the DOE's motivation is in trying to use test data in tenure decisions? If we're dealing with probationary teachers, doesn't the DOE already have all the power they need to deny tenure? Can't they just give teachers U ratings and deny them tenure if they don't like them? Can someone tell me what the DOE’s motivation is in trying to use test data in tenure decisions? If we’re dealing with probationary teachers, doesn’t the DOE already have all the power they need to deny tenure? Can’t they just give teachers U ratings and deny them tenure if they don’t like them?

]]> By: MichaelB http://www.edwize.org/the-big-lie-and-the-simple-truth/comment-page-1#comment-65505 MichaelB Sun, 13 Apr 2008 01:05:39 +0000 http://edwize.org/the-big-lie-and-the-simple-truth#comment-65505 Jonathan, thanks for your comments. I'm at a new school this year and was handed a pile of data before the quality review this year and told I was supposed to be using it to plan my lessons, because that's what the quality review people want. Did I miss something? When did this fad become widespread? I received my masters in 2004 and this is all new to me. Can this be used as the basis for an unsatisfactory observation? Jonathan, thanks for your comments. I’m at a new school this year and was handed a pile of data before the quality review this year and told I was supposed to be using it to plan my lessons, because that’s what the quality review people want. Did I miss something? When did this fad become widespread? I received my masters in 2004 and this is all new to me. Can this be used as the basis for an unsatisfactory observation?

]]> By: jd2718 http://www.edwize.org/the-big-lie-and-the-simple-truth/comment-page-1#comment-65490 jd2718 Fri, 11 Apr 2008 00:10:03 +0000 http://edwize.org/the-big-lie-and-the-simple-truth#comment-65490 Well put. They award and deny tenure based on performance. That's always been the case, though they may not always perform their jobs with diligence. The tests have everything wrong with them that you mention. And more. But I don't much care for part of the compromise you mentioned <blockquote>the compromise agreement...makes...clear that tenure will depend upon [observation] as well as <strong>the ability of a teacher to use data to inform instruction</strong>.</blockquote> What a shame you agreed to let them sneak in test scores through the back door. Maybe what bothers me more, use of test scores doesn't matter. You've sat on more hiring committees than most people I know. Did anyone ever care about how a candidate read data? You have run into teachers whose tenure was denied. Did a principal ever express frustration about use of data? Ever hear of letters to file for poor use of data? Other disciplinary action? In the rest of the world? Problems with teachers using data badly in Canada? Parochial school teachers get rated on use of data? Charter school teachers? What about at the UFT Charter School? (we need to return to this topic at another time) Do hiring decisions include the ability of the candidate to use data? Maybe I'm wrong and the use of data is a big part of the culture in some of these places. But I don't think so. Schools should have someone, maybe a few people, who can handle data well. But it doesn't need to be the teacher who wonderfully draws students into discussion of Beowulf, the teacher who makes participatory government come alive, and certainly not the teacher who wipes noses, doles out hugs while teaching the alphabet, counting by tens, and indoor voices. Those jobs need to be filled by people who can teach. Jonathan Well put. They award and deny tenure based on performance. That’s always been the case, though they may not always perform their jobs with diligence.

The tests have everything wrong with them that you mention. And more.

But I don’t much care for part of the compromise you mentioned

the compromise agreement…makes…clear that tenure will depend upon [observation] as well as the ability of a teacher to use data to inform instruction.

What a shame you agreed to let them sneak in test scores through the back door.

Maybe what bothers me more, use of test scores doesn’t matter.

You’ve sat on more hiring committees than most people I know. Did anyone ever care about how a candidate read data?

You have run into teachers whose tenure was denied. Did a principal ever express frustration about use of data?

Ever hear of letters to file for poor use of data? Other disciplinary action?

In the rest of the world? Problems with teachers using data badly in Canada? Parochial school teachers get rated on use of data? Charter school teachers?

What about at the UFT Charter School? (we need to return to this topic at another time) Do hiring decisions include the ability of the candidate to use data?

Maybe I’m wrong and the use of data is a big part of the culture in some of these places. But I don’t think so.

Schools should have someone, maybe a few people, who can handle data well. But it doesn’t need to be the teacher who wonderfully draws students into discussion of Beowulf, the teacher who makes participatory government come alive, and certainly not the teacher who wipes noses, doles out hugs while teaching the alphabet, counting by tens, and indoor voices.

Those jobs need to be filled by people who can teach.

Jonathan

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