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	<title>Comments on: The Real True Facts Behind the DOE Teacher Value-Added Project</title>
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		<title>By: Creating Lifelong Learners &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Carnival of Education #156</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/the-real-true-facts-behind-the-doe-teacher-value-added-project/comment-page-1#comment-65011</link>
		<dc:creator>Creating Lifelong Learners &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Carnival of Education #156</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 01:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/the-real-true-facts-behind-the-doe-teacher-value-added-project#comment-65011</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] The Real True Facts Behind the DOE Teacher Value-Added Project by Steve Perez in Edwize. [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] The Real True Facts Behind the DOE Teacher Value-Added Project by Steve Perez in Edwize. [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Peeing into the Wind: Why is Klein Picking Losing Fights With the Teachers Union? &#171; Ed In The Apple</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/the-real-true-facts-behind-the-doe-teacher-value-added-project/comment-page-1#comment-64989</link>
		<dc:creator>Peeing into the Wind: Why is Klein Picking Losing Fights With the Teachers Union? &#171; Ed In The Apple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 02:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/the-real-true-facts-behind-the-doe-teacher-value-added-project#comment-64989</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] folks over at Edwize, Leo Casey and City Sue, skewered the concept, and, the blogosphere in general was [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] folks over at Edwize, Leo Casey and City Sue, skewered the concept, and, the blogosphere in general was [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: jd2718</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/the-real-true-facts-behind-the-doe-teacher-value-added-project/comment-page-1#comment-64979</link>
		<dc:creator>jd2718</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 16:25:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/the-real-true-facts-behind-the-doe-teacher-value-added-project#comment-64979</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Why can’t we denounce his ill-advised plans as smokescreens to cover up his terrible retention numbers?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well-said Michael. There is a battle in the media, and we don&#039;t need to lose it.

Retention should be front and foremost, but there are other pro-kid, pro-school, pro-teacher issues to push as well. Testing is huge, and we should make more of it. The moment passed on NCLB, where we finessed what should have been a loud &quot;no.&quot; The physical conditions of the schools. Overcrowding. The bus routes.

But to do this we need to be willing to say clearly that Bloomberg&#039;s record on education is one of failure. 

Jonathan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Why can’t we denounce his ill-advised plans as smokescreens to cover up his terrible retention numbers?</p></blockquote>
<p>Well-said Michael. There is a battle in the media, and we don&#8217;t need to lose it.</p>
<p>Retention should be front and foremost, but there are other pro-kid, pro-school, pro-teacher issues to push as well. Testing is huge, and we should make more of it. The moment passed on NCLB, where we finessed what should have been a loud &#8220;no.&#8221; The physical conditions of the schools. Overcrowding. The bus routes.</p>
<p>But to do this we need to be willing to say clearly that Bloomberg&#8217;s record on education is one of failure. </p>
<p>Jonathan</p>
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		<title>By: MichaelB</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/the-real-true-facts-behind-the-doe-teacher-value-added-project/comment-page-1#comment-64962</link>
		<dc:creator>MichaelB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/the-real-true-facts-behind-the-doe-teacher-value-added-project#comment-64962</guid>
		<description>I have to hand it to Klein - this is a smart political move. He sets the agenda, while we have the difficult task of explaining to the public that his plan is bogus while not appearing to be standing in the way of sensible reform.

There seems to be a pattern here.  Klein announces &quot;improvements&quot; in test scores, gets the positive headlines, and the UFT is left to explain how they aren&#039;t really improving.  Klein announces improvements in the graduation rates of the new small schools and we have to point out that his numbers are bogus, but the papers keep repeating his version of the story.  Meanwhile, no one notices that his reforms aren&#039;t all they&#039;re cracked up to be.

I feel like we&#039;re going to be stuck playing defense until we make more of an issue of teacher retention.  Our numbers show an important story - that teachers are leaving the system under Klein as fast as ever.  Everyone agrees this is a problem, but no one talks about it.  Why can&#039;t we put consistent public pressure on Klein to address this issue?  Why couldn&#039;t we have said the success of his tenure would depend on by whether or not he could cut in half the attrition rate and then hold him to it?  Why can&#039;t we denounce his ill-advised plans as smokescreens to cover up his terrible retention numbers?

As long Klein gets to use his numbers to tell his story, he&#039;ll be able to set the agenda.  What about us and our story?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to hand it to Klein &#8211; this is a smart political move. He sets the agenda, while we have the difficult task of explaining to the public that his plan is bogus while not appearing to be standing in the way of sensible reform.</p>
<p>There seems to be a pattern here.  Klein announces &#8220;improvements&#8221; in test scores, gets the positive headlines, and the UFT is left to explain how they aren&#8217;t really improving.  Klein announces improvements in the graduation rates of the new small schools and we have to point out that his numbers are bogus, but the papers keep repeating his version of the story.  Meanwhile, no one notices that his reforms aren&#8217;t all they&#8217;re cracked up to be.</p>
<p>I feel like we&#8217;re going to be stuck playing defense until we make more of an issue of teacher retention.  Our numbers show an important story &#8211; that teachers are leaving the system under Klein as fast as ever.  Everyone agrees this is a problem, but no one talks about it.  Why can&#8217;t we put consistent public pressure on Klein to address this issue?  Why couldn&#8217;t we have said the success of his tenure would depend on by whether or not he could cut in half the attrition rate and then hold him to it?  Why can&#8217;t we denounce his ill-advised plans as smokescreens to cover up his terrible retention numbers?</p>
<p>As long Klein gets to use his numbers to tell his story, he&#8217;ll be able to set the agenda.  What about us and our story?</p>
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		<title>By: jd2718</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/the-real-true-facts-behind-the-doe-teacher-value-added-project/comment-page-1#comment-64961</link>
		<dc:creator>jd2718</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 23:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/the-real-true-facts-behind-the-doe-teacher-value-added-project#comment-64961</guid>
		<description>Sue,

fair enough on those answers, and thank you. We have been clear on opposing test data for &#039;high stakes&#039; decisions, and I recall the letter.

I don&#039;t know about participating. I am uneasy about lending legitimacy to their projects. And I worry about how this affects our ability to rally our members, as it were. You picked up information, but was it worth it? These are questions.

We should keep our membership better informed. That&#039;s not a question.

But more importantly, going forward, is our response. The resolution that the Exec Board passed last night is a good one. (I am looking for the text - it probably won&#039;t be on the website until the Delegate Assembly ratifies it).

Jonathan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sue,</p>
<p>fair enough on those answers, and thank you. We have been clear on opposing test data for &#8216;high stakes&#8217; decisions, and I recall the letter.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know about participating. I am uneasy about lending legitimacy to their projects. And I worry about how this affects our ability to rally our members, as it were. You picked up information, but was it worth it? These are questions.</p>
<p>We should keep our membership better informed. That&#8217;s not a question.</p>
<p>But more importantly, going forward, is our response. The resolution that the Exec Board passed last night is a good one. (I am looking for the text &#8211; it probably won&#8217;t be on the website until the Delegate Assembly ratifies it).</p>
<p>Jonathan</p>
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		<title>By: Otter</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/the-real-true-facts-behind-the-doe-teacher-value-added-project/comment-page-1#comment-64959</link>
		<dc:creator>Otter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/the-real-true-facts-behind-the-doe-teacher-value-added-project#comment-64959</guid>
		<description>CitySue,

You say in an earlier comment that this program was privately funded. By whom?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CitySue,</p>
<p>You say in an earlier comment that this program was privately funded. By whom?</p>
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		<title>By: CitySue</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/the-real-true-facts-behind-the-doe-teacher-value-added-project/comment-page-1#comment-64958</link>
		<dc:creator>CitySue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/the-real-true-facts-behind-the-doe-teacher-value-added-project#comment-64958</guid>
		<description>Here, Jonathan, are the DOE&#039;s stated goals for the VA project:
·       Develop models to measure the value that individual teachers add to student achievement
·       Provide teacher value-added data to principals in an accessible form
·       Evaluate the potential benefits and uses of these data

Notice there is no mention of evaluating teachers.
I know that Randi has frequently written and spoken at member meetings about the chancellor&#039;s efforts to use student test scores in tenure decisions, in evaluating teachers and in individual merit pay. Her member letter of Jan 2007 devotes a couple of paragrafs to it. As I recollect, she has mentioned this project specifically at either a DA or executive board meeting, maybe both and maybe more than once. From my vantage point, I cannot trace the precise decision making chain as I do not take part in those meetings. Obviously, if we had decided not to sit on the panel, we would know much less than we do now, and I would not have been able to offer the above criticism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here, Jonathan, are the DOE&#8217;s stated goals for the VA project:<br />
·       Develop models to measure the value that individual teachers add to student achievement<br />
·       Provide teacher value-added data to principals in an accessible form<br />
·       Evaluate the potential benefits and uses of these data</p>
<p>Notice there is no mention of evaluating teachers.<br />
I know that Randi has frequently written and spoken at member meetings about the chancellor&#8217;s efforts to use student test scores in tenure decisions, in evaluating teachers and in individual merit pay. Her member letter of Jan 2007 devotes a couple of paragrafs to it. As I recollect, she has mentioned this project specifically at either a DA or executive board meeting, maybe both and maybe more than once. From my vantage point, I cannot trace the precise decision making chain as I do not take part in those meetings. Obviously, if we had decided not to sit on the panel, we would know much less than we do now, and I would not have been able to offer the above criticism.</p>
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		<title>By: NYCDoE rates teachers - more response &#171; JD2718</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/the-real-true-facts-behind-the-doe-teacher-value-added-project/comment-page-1#comment-64954</link>
		<dc:creator>NYCDoE rates teachers - more response &#171; JD2718</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:32:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/the-real-true-facts-behind-the-doe-teacher-value-added-project#comment-64954</guid>
		<description>[...] brings me to the UFT. City Sue, our director of policy research, sat on a panel from September that considered, in theory,....  We should have known. We should have informed our [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] brings me to the UFT. City Sue, our director of policy research, sat on a panel from September that considered, in theory,&#8230;.  We should have known. We should have informed our [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jd2718</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/the-real-true-facts-behind-the-doe-teacher-value-added-project/comment-page-1#comment-64953</link>
		<dc:creator>jd2718</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:34:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/the-real-true-facts-behind-the-doe-teacher-value-added-project#comment-64953</guid>
		<description>City Sue,

I am not certain whether it made sense or not to participate (although after the fact, it may not matter much). I would hope that we consider options carefully, and I would hesitate to characterize anything controversial as a &quot;no-brainer.&quot;

My questions are real questions. Can you or someone else answer them?

Jonathan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>City Sue,</p>
<p>I am not certain whether it made sense or not to participate (although after the fact, it may not matter much). I would hope that we consider options carefully, and I would hesitate to characterize anything controversial as a &#8220;no-brainer.&#8221;</p>
<p>My questions are real questions. Can you or someone else answer them?</p>
<p>Jonathan</p>
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		<title>By: NYC Educator</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/the-real-true-facts-behind-the-doe-teacher-value-added-project/comment-page-1#comment-64952</link>
		<dc:creator>NYC Educator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/the-real-true-facts-behind-the-doe-teacher-value-added-project#comment-64952</guid>
		<description>Like you, City Sue, I will shed few tears when Klein and Bloomberg pack their bags.  I do remember, though, similar sentiments about our erstwhile leader, Rudy Giuliani.

I think it&#039;s important for the UFT to become more proactive, more assertive, and less dependent on who may or may not be the next mayor, governor, president, or whatever.  Governor Spitzer, for example (and I voted for him as enthusiastically as anyone), has just drastically reduced funds that could&#039;ve been used to reduce class sizes in NYC.

We can&#039;t count on a friend in City Hall.  I&#039;ve been teaching for 23 years, and we&#039;ve almost never had one. While I remember a brief flash of sympathy from Mayor Dinkins, he quickly turned his back on us, rather than defending education as important.

We need to stand up for ourselves and aggressively push a pro-teacher, pro-education agenda no matter who is in charge.  Certainly if we don&#039;t, no one else will do it for us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like you, City Sue, I will shed few tears when Klein and Bloomberg pack their bags.  I do remember, though, similar sentiments about our erstwhile leader, Rudy Giuliani.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s important for the UFT to become more proactive, more assertive, and less dependent on who may or may not be the next mayor, governor, president, or whatever.  Governor Spitzer, for example (and I voted for him as enthusiastically as anyone), has just drastically reduced funds that could&#8217;ve been used to reduce class sizes in NYC.</p>
<p>We can&#8217;t count on a friend in City Hall.  I&#8217;ve been teaching for 23 years, and we&#8217;ve almost never had one. While I remember a brief flash of sympathy from Mayor Dinkins, he quickly turned his back on us, rather than defending education as important.</p>
<p>We need to stand up for ourselves and aggressively push a pro-teacher, pro-education agenda no matter who is in charge.  Certainly if we don&#8217;t, no one else will do it for us.</p>
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