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	<title>Comments on: Watch What They Do, Not What They Say&#8230;</title>
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		<title>By: Bob Schwaber</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/watch-what-they-do-not-what-they-say/comment-page-1#comment-66677</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Schwaber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/?p=1226#comment-66677</guid>
		<description>Would you know the answer to this question/

A friend of mine had taught at PS abc for 7 years and was excessed to PS xyz as an ATR this past September.

If PS xyz has to excess staff at the end of this year, would she stay as an ATR at PS xyz or would someone who has a regular class but has been at PS xyz for 3 years stay as the ATR? Who stays as PS xyz&#039;s ATR and who becomes an ATR at another school?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would you know the answer to this question/</p>
<p>A friend of mine had taught at PS abc for 7 years and was excessed to PS xyz as an ATR this past September.</p>
<p>If PS xyz has to excess staff at the end of this year, would she stay as an ATR at PS xyz or would someone who has a regular class but has been at PS xyz for 3 years stay as the ATR? Who stays as PS xyz&#8217;s ATR and who becomes an ATR at another school?</p>
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		<title>By: Love to Teach</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/watch-what-they-do-not-what-they-say/comment-page-1#comment-65754</link>
		<dc:creator>Love to Teach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 18:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/?p=1226#comment-65754</guid>
		<description>JW,
The negotiators to the last contract probably saw this ATR problem developing. 
Perhaps they assumed it would involve a small number of teachers. and maybe they opted to benefit the larger sum, with bigger raises, etc., and see what developed with the ATR&#039;s.
The problem now exists in a way where the membership should be able to decide what is in their best interests, protectionism or salary and pension growth.
Any talk about age discrimination lawsuits skirt the issue, and will be meaningless in the short and long run.
All parties to this contract are and were intelligent and astute. Their are no surprises here, just consequences and benefits, and it for the membership to decide what philosopht we want to advocate.
Obviously it seems we can&#039;t have everything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JW,<br />
The negotiators to the last contract probably saw this ATR problem developing.<br />
Perhaps they assumed it would involve a small number of teachers. and maybe they opted to benefit the larger sum, with bigger raises, etc., and see what developed with the ATR&#8217;s.<br />
The problem now exists in a way where the membership should be able to decide what is in their best interests, protectionism or salary and pension growth.<br />
Any talk about age discrimination lawsuits skirt the issue, and will be meaningless in the short and long run.<br />
All parties to this contract are and were intelligent and astute. Their are no surprises here, just consequences and benefits, and it for the membership to decide what philosopht we want to advocate.<br />
Obviously it seems we can&#8217;t have everything.</p>
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		<title>By: phyllis c. murray</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/watch-what-they-do-not-what-they-say/comment-page-1#comment-65743</link>
		<dc:creator>phyllis c. murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 12:42:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/?p=1226#comment-65743</guid>
		<description>&quot;Teachers Unite: How have the demographics of New York City&#039;s public school population, among teachers and students, changed since you&#039;ve been involved in education?

Sam Anderson: Over the past 40 years New York City&#039;s public schools have gone from being comprised of predominantly white students to one that is now predominantly Black, Latino and Asian students. 

However, when we look at the racial breakdown of the teaching and administrative staff, they are still overwhelmingly white to the point that nearly 80% of the teachers are white. All we have to do is look at the Department of Education&#039;s own data. More specifically, when we look at the sixteen year record of the racial breakdown of new hires, we see the re-enforcement of white teacher dominance clearly built into the DOE&#039;s personnel structure. Below are the data from the DOE about new hires (this was not easy to come by. But thanks to the persistent work of an Amsterdam News journalist, it is now in the public light).&quot;Black Educator: NYC&#039;s Disappearing Black/Latino Public School Teachers

http://blackeducator.blogspot.com/2006/12/nycs-disappearing-blacklatino-public.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Teachers Unite: How have the demographics of New York City&#8217;s public school population, among teachers and students, changed since you&#8217;ve been involved in education?</p>
<p>Sam Anderson: Over the past 40 years New York City&#8217;s public schools have gone from being comprised of predominantly white students to one that is now predominantly Black, Latino and Asian students. </p>
<p>However, when we look at the racial breakdown of the teaching and administrative staff, they are still overwhelmingly white to the point that nearly 80% of the teachers are white. All we have to do is look at the Department of Education&#8217;s own data. More specifically, when we look at the sixteen year record of the racial breakdown of new hires, we see the re-enforcement of white teacher dominance clearly built into the DOE&#8217;s personnel structure. Below are the data from the DOE about new hires (this was not easy to come by. But thanks to the persistent work of an Amsterdam News journalist, it is now in the public light).&#8221;Black Educator: NYC&#8217;s Disappearing Black/Latino Public School Teachers</p>
<p><a href="http://blackeducator.blogspot.com/2006/12/nycs-disappearing-blacklatino-public.html" rel="nofollow">http://blackeducator.blogspot.com/2006/12/nycs-disappearing-blacklatino-public.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: JW</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/watch-what-they-do-not-what-they-say/comment-page-1#comment-65732</link>
		<dc:creator>JW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 10:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/?p=1226#comment-65732</guid>
		<description>Love to Teach, 
You think discussing the ATR fiasco at this time is a &quot;reasonable opportunity&quot; to evaluate the problem that was created with the last contract&quot; ?  Now? 

First: the most reasonable opportunity to evaluate the ATR situation was actually BEFORE the union signed the last contract. That&#039;s what we pay them to do to. They either didn&#039;t take the potential threat of throwing  staff out of positions seriously enough or they thought this was reasonable collateral damage in exchange for ability to transfer.  Since they sold the contract to us with such gusto, and they keep talking about all those transfers that have been made possible, my bet is that they understood the consequences in full and didn&#039;t care about the loss of careers for some people. RW also doesn&#039;t mind the closing of schools.

Secondly:  The &quot;problem,&quot; as you say, was further compounded AFTER the contract was signed, when Klein changed the way teachers get paid.  Whether the union knew that he was going to do this is not clear. It&#039;s either that the they knew he was going to change the payment procedures before they signed the contract or that they were outwitted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love to Teach,<br />
You think discussing the ATR fiasco at this time is a &#8220;reasonable opportunity&#8221; to evaluate the problem that was created with the last contract&#8221; ?  Now? </p>
<p>First: the most reasonable opportunity to evaluate the ATR situation was actually BEFORE the union signed the last contract. That&#8217;s what we pay them to do to. They either didn&#8217;t take the potential threat of throwing  staff out of positions seriously enough or they thought this was reasonable collateral damage in exchange for ability to transfer.  Since they sold the contract to us with such gusto, and they keep talking about all those transfers that have been made possible, my bet is that they understood the consequences in full and didn&#8217;t care about the loss of careers for some people. RW also doesn&#8217;t mind the closing of schools.</p>
<p>Secondly:  The &#8220;problem,&#8221; as you say, was further compounded AFTER the contract was signed, when Klein changed the way teachers get paid.  Whether the union knew that he was going to do this is not clear. It&#8217;s either that the they knew he was going to change the payment procedures before they signed the contract or that they were outwitted.</p>
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		<title>By: Love to Teach</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/watch-what-they-do-not-what-they-say/comment-page-1#comment-65725</link>
		<dc:creator>Love to Teach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 11:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/?p=1226#comment-65725</guid>
		<description>I am not advocating firing anyone. 
I am just proposing and putting up for discussion a reasonable opportunity to evaluate the problem that was created with the last contract and see if there are solutions to this problem.
I would never encourage a firing of a teacher !!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not advocating firing anyone.<br />
I am just proposing and putting up for discussion a reasonable opportunity to evaluate the problem that was created with the last contract and see if there are solutions to this problem.<br />
I would never encourage a firing of a teacher !!!</p>
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		<title>By: jd2718</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/watch-what-they-do-not-what-they-say/comment-page-1#comment-65723</link>
		<dc:creator>jd2718</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 00:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/?p=1226#comment-65723</guid>
		<description>You are arguing for firing teachers without cause. 

I don&#039;t think you are in a position to tell us what being a unionist entails.

Jonathan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are arguing for firing teachers without cause. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think you are in a position to tell us what being a unionist entails.</p>
<p>Jonathan</p>
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		<title>By: Love to Teach</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/watch-what-they-do-not-what-they-say/comment-page-1#comment-65721</link>
		<dc:creator>Love to Teach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 09:58:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/?p=1226#comment-65721</guid>
		<description>I think you can be a unionist as well as a concerned NYC tax paying citizen. I do not think that a concern with how money is spent in schools and the effect on increased costs is incompatible with being pro union.
After all there is a limit to what the City and State can afford.
If ATR&#039;s are more expensive than substitutes that is a legitimate concern, for all who pay taxes to fund schools and school contracts.
The recent development with Mr. Schwartz, actuary, regarding the DC 37 reduction in age pension reopener should make us all wise to our fragile relationship with the political structure in Albany.
Regardless of our good relationships in Albany, I would bet that our recently won 55/25 plan, would not pass today, due to the revelations of the cost analysis of Mr. Schwartz, and the response by the Albany politicians.
I see no incompatibility between being aunionist and a concerned tax payer.
We should never kill the Golden Goose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you can be a unionist as well as a concerned NYC tax paying citizen. I do not think that a concern with how money is spent in schools and the effect on increased costs is incompatible with being pro union.<br />
After all there is a limit to what the City and State can afford.<br />
If ATR&#8217;s are more expensive than substitutes that is a legitimate concern, for all who pay taxes to fund schools and school contracts.<br />
The recent development with Mr. Schwartz, actuary, regarding the DC 37 reduction in age pension reopener should make us all wise to our fragile relationship with the political structure in Albany.<br />
Regardless of our good relationships in Albany, I would bet that our recently won 55/25 plan, would not pass today, due to the revelations of the cost analysis of Mr. Schwartz, and the response by the Albany politicians.<br />
I see no incompatibility between being aunionist and a concerned tax payer.<br />
We should never kill the Golden Goose.</p>
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		<title>By: phyllis c. murray</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/watch-what-they-do-not-what-they-say/comment-page-1#comment-65720</link>
		<dc:creator>phyllis c. murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 22:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/?p=1226#comment-65720</guid>
		<description>&quot; Since the attacks of September 11, 2001, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) and state and local fair employment practices agencies have documented a significant increase in the number of charges alleging workplace discrimination based on religion and/or national origin. Many of the charges have been filed by individuals who are or are perceived to be Muslim, Arab, South Asian, or Sikh. These charges most commonly allege harassment and discharge.&quot;The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission 

 
 
&quot;According to the EEOC, race discrimination complaints continue to be the number one complaint made to the EEOC. In 2006, a total of 27,238 such complaints were filed. The EEOC also has seen a substantial increase over the past 15 years in discrimination claims based on color, which have soared from 374 in 1992 to 1,241 in 2006.&quot;Tresa Baldas The National Law Journal March 30, 2007

Therefore, perhaps it is  more likely for one to have ATRs in our schools to fill the daily vacancies who represent Africans,Hispanics , Muslims, Arabs, and  South Asians than any other group. Age discrimination may  also be evident within this population of minorities. Therefore an age discrimination suit is needed. And in the process of further examination, other information might surface regarding the myriad ways minorities are excluded from equal opportunities for full employment in our public schools.

.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; Since the attacks of September 11, 2001, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) and state and local fair employment practices agencies have documented a significant increase in the number of charges alleging workplace discrimination based on religion and/or national origin. Many of the charges have been filed by individuals who are or are perceived to be Muslim, Arab, South Asian, or Sikh. These charges most commonly allege harassment and discharge.&#8221;The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission </p>
<p>&#8220;According to the EEOC, race discrimination complaints continue to be the number one complaint made to the EEOC. In 2006, a total of 27,238 such complaints were filed. The EEOC also has seen a substantial increase over the past 15 years in discrimination claims based on color, which have soared from 374 in 1992 to 1,241 in 2006.&#8221;Tresa Baldas The National Law Journal March 30, 2007</p>
<p>Therefore, perhaps it is  more likely for one to have ATRs in our schools to fill the daily vacancies who represent Africans,Hispanics , Muslims, Arabs, and  South Asians than any other group. Age discrimination may  also be evident within this population of minorities. Therefore an age discrimination suit is needed. And in the process of further examination, other information might surface regarding the myriad ways minorities are excluded from equal opportunities for full employment in our public schools.</p>
<p>.</p>
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		<title>By: JW</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/watch-what-they-do-not-what-they-say/comment-page-1#comment-65718</link>
		<dc:creator>JW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 17:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/?p=1226#comment-65718</guid>
		<description>How can anyone say if there are more people of color as ATRS? It&#039;s not as if they are all sitting in one place or showing up on one list. They&#039;re all over the system by now:  those who found new jobs, others in full positions but still ATRs, others doing daily subbing, others waiting for an assignment. 

The data was apparently not readily available last Sept., or at least that was what the union was telling us when we were asking them to make the numbers of ATRs known.  We all thought that it would have been readily available at the union, given that they do have computers. But, they claim they had to manually compile the info, with DRs asking chapter leaders to submit the names of the ATRs in their schools. 

With regard to data, I still am confused as to what the UFT is capable of compiling/viewing or not.  Either the DoE was keeping the information back, or the UFT doesn&#039;t have the computer capability to protect the members as much as it should, or the UFT was not telling us the truth.  Each of these alternative explanations is as bad as the next from our point of view.  

I mean, once a person is hired by a school, that should show up on any computer.  If a name is not attached to school by September 10, let&#039;s say, shouldn&#039;t there be a blank space?  You can then count blank spaces.  What&#039;s so difficult?  I&#039;m serious:  will somebody explain to me why data compilations couldn&#039;t have been made last fall, and have changes been made to correct this problem?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How can anyone say if there are more people of color as ATRS? It&#8217;s not as if they are all sitting in one place or showing up on one list. They&#8217;re all over the system by now:  those who found new jobs, others in full positions but still ATRs, others doing daily subbing, others waiting for an assignment. </p>
<p>The data was apparently not readily available last Sept., or at least that was what the union was telling us when we were asking them to make the numbers of ATRs known.  We all thought that it would have been readily available at the union, given that they do have computers. But, they claim they had to manually compile the info, with DRs asking chapter leaders to submit the names of the ATRs in their schools. </p>
<p>With regard to data, I still am confused as to what the UFT is capable of compiling/viewing or not.  Either the DoE was keeping the information back, or the UFT doesn&#8217;t have the computer capability to protect the members as much as it should, or the UFT was not telling us the truth.  Each of these alternative explanations is as bad as the next from our point of view.  </p>
<p>I mean, once a person is hired by a school, that should show up on any computer.  If a name is not attached to school by September 10, let&#8217;s say, shouldn&#8217;t there be a blank space?  You can then count blank spaces.  What&#8217;s so difficult?  I&#8217;m serious:  will somebody explain to me why data compilations couldn&#8217;t have been made last fall, and have changes been made to correct this problem?</p>
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		<title>By: jd2718</title>
		<link>http://www.edwize.org/watch-what-they-do-not-what-they-say/comment-page-1#comment-65716</link>
		<dc:creator>jd2718</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 04:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edwize.org/?p=1226#comment-65716</guid>
		<description>Please look closely at Phyllis&#039; comment. Anecdotally, I am hearing that the ATRs are much Blacker and more Hispanic than the pedagogical workforce as a whole.

Ironic, their discriminatory hiring practices makes everything they do look discriminatory.

Can we follow up?

Jonathan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please look closely at Phyllis&#8217; comment. Anecdotally, I am hearing that the ATRs are much Blacker and more Hispanic than the pedagogical workforce as a whole.</p>
<p>Ironic, their discriminatory hiring practices makes everything they do look discriminatory.</p>
<p>Can we follow up?</p>
<p>Jonathan</p>
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